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Norwegian University study exaggerates downside of electric vehicles

AutoBlog -- A recent column by Leo Hickman in The Guardian set off a wave of debate over the true merit of electric vehicles (EVs) compared to internal combustion engine vehicles (EVs). Hickman used a study from the Norwegian University of Science and Technology (NTNU) called Comparative Environmental Life Cycle Assessment of Conventional and Electric Vehicles that explored a variety of factors involved in the lifecycle of the car – from materials used to vehicle emissions to the source of energy moving the metal – as a starting point. The problem, as we'll see, is that the study uses some dubious assumptions to badmouth EVs.

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Submitted Oct 18, 2012 By: Eugenian

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96 Rookie Author Appleton Posts:90 Points:60,000 Joined:Aug 2012	Message Posted: Oct 19, 2012 8:44:53 PM Ignore 96 Report Abuse ok
qwerty17 Champion Author New Jersey Posts:3,630 Points:1,112,925 Joined:Oct 2009	Message Posted: Oct 19, 2012 11:46:46 AM Ignore qwerty17 Report Abuse spinners, they keep on spinnin'. unless you're a sheep & you like one-way news, stay away from breitbart.com, al-jazeera.com & the fox newses of the world.
YumaFellow Champion Author Arizona Posts:1,265 Points:617,620 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 11:05:53 PM Ignore YumaFellow Report Abuse This makes the point that you have to consider your sources. Lots of articles get written by "experts" who are on the payroll of one interest or another.
melvindale Champion Author Michigan Posts:1,438 Points:351,230 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 10:22:37 PM Ignore melvindale Report Abuse Typical of big oil - lie their asses off. It looks like they really fear electric vehicles. Instead of fighting them, they should get out of the oil business, get into solar electric and making components for electric cars. Then they profit from change instead of wasting money and effort fighting against change. A good businessman sees potential profit from change. A fool tries to stop it.
bwatchingu Champion Author Arkansas Posts:1,725 Points:596,745 Joined:Jan 2009	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 5:50:34 PM Ignore bwatchingu Report Abuse interesting
leraar2 Champion Author Massachusetts Posts:3,739 Points:782,705 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 5:19:50 PM Ignore leraar2 Report Abuse EV'ss still not economic nor green.
DandD6527 Rookie Author Seattle Posts:21 Points:2,105 Joined:Oct 2012	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 3:21:43 PM Ignore DandD6527 Report Abuse I concur with Bluebird1 - "Until batteries drastically improve, EV's is not the long nor short-term sol'n except in certain finite cases, like light local deliveries or limited commuting runs."
Digger52 Champion Author Chicago Posts:2,382 Points:843,960 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 1:25:41 PM Ignore Digger52 Report Abuse OK
bluebird1 Champion Author Toronto Posts:15,710 Points:3,103,150 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 12:42:10 PM Ignore bluebird1 Report Abuse Until batteries drastically improve, EV's is not the long nor short-term sol'n except in certain finite cases, like light local deliveries or limited commuting runs.
Cellsite Champion Author Appleton Posts:1,218 Points:283,700 Joined:Jun 2012	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 11:48:14 AM Ignore Cellsite Report Abuse Exaggerated or not, it still points out that there's a lot more to look at than just the fact an EV is not burning gasoline. EV's are not as green as the green-weenies would have us believe.
teenitup Champion Author Houston Posts:1,585 Points:244,960 Joined:Sep 2012	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 11:43:08 AM Ignore teenitup Report Abuse I don't think the Norwegian study exaggerated at all.
Dennisjk Champion Author Detroit Posts:6,466 Points:1,920,675 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 11:28:25 AM Ignore Dennisjk Report Abuse On top of all that, people don't want them. They are not worth the extra cost.
Don20 Champion Author Oklahoma City Posts:9,647 Points:2,614,655 Joined:Mar 2005	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 11:21:47 AM Ignore Don20 Report Abuse A recent column by Leo Hickman in The Guardian set off a wave of debate over the true merit of electric vehicles (EVs) compared to internal combustion engine vehicles (EVs). One thing its to expensive to purchase for the average consumer, the distance between changes is to short, and there is not a charging post on every corner like gas station. The cost to dispose of old batteries is half the cost of the new one. At this point they are expensive to maintain because not everyone can work on them... It may be good for in city deliver service or a get to work vehicle but that is about all. Not for me at this time...
driveonby1 Champion Author Toledo Posts:1,507 Points:256,665 Joined:Jun 2007	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 11:15:00 AM Ignore driveonby1 Report Abuse Yeah, go on about the tangents, just like our current President, and distract from what's important. Even the newest technology has still not overcome the battery problems, which have been worked on for thirty years or more. More importantly, , cost, infrastructure and national driving habits do not, and will not, ever support electric cars. to a national extent. The only reason they are available, like solar panels and wind mills, is that these companies have been incentivized by our president, our taxes, and, of course, the liberal press. OK, now I'll take a breath.
rnlunder Champion Author Waco Posts:2,321 Points:496,125 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 11:06:27 AM Ignore rnlunder Report Abuse So what's new??? Environmentalist have been manipulating data to imply that almost any form of energy is bad in some way or another. In fact they even admit to lying and deception just to get an energy project stopped for a long term, expensive study or investigation. Their tactic is to keep the company in litigation and make it so too expensive for a company to develop some energy source so that they will eventually just give up and scrap the project. I recall many years ago, they got a highway in Colorado diverted away from a small creek where they claimed some rare, endangered fish had it's breeding grounds. After the highway was diverted it was discovered that endangered species of fish never inhabited that creek and it was never a breeding ground. The environmentalist admitted that they made up the whole story just to get the highway moved further away from the creek....at a considerable expense to the state of Colorado.
LoadToad Champion Author San Diego Posts:1,364 Points:1,298,045 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 11:05:16 AM Ignore LoadToad Report Abuse For a local commute vehicle EV could fill the bill but for long distance, I'll take a regular powered car.
joekool1 Champion Author Toledo Posts:1,099 Points:131,280 Joined:Sep 2012	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 11:04:37 AM Ignore joekool1 Report Abuse why go honest studies seem to be bashed so much ?
LongPlay Champion Author Albuquerque Posts:4,222 Points:1,235,300 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 11:03:52 AM Ignore LongPlay Report Abuse Electrics are not very useful except as show!
unicornpmb Champion Author Buffalo Posts:8,466 Points:1,624,540 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 11:03:31 AM Ignore unicornpmb Report Abuse Just not my cup of tea.
quasar502 Champion Author Lansing Posts:3,558 Points:796,375 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 11:02:45 AM Ignore quasar502 Report Abuse Ridiculous.
motbe Rookie Author Orlando Posts:37 Points:435,165 Joined:Aug 2011	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 11:02:14 AM Ignore motbe Report Abuse Eggs are good, Eggs are bad, EV's are good, EV's are bad. Seems like findings are similarly consistent to other items that are "studied"
pickledude72 Champion Author California Posts:1,120 Points:834,745 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 11:01:05 AM Ignore pickledude72 Report Abuse If you want electric cars; you better invest in a "very Long" extention cord, because it will be a long long time before there are enough electric "plug ins" to keep you going on a very long trip
my2002m Champion Author Tulsa Posts:6,049 Points:1,665,325 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 11:00:37 AM Ignore my2002m Report Abuse Still not going to buy one.
hwmillerster Champion Author Missouri Posts:6,764 Points:1,460,370 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 11:00:35 AM Ignore hwmillerster Report Abuse With these studies, you get what you pay for.
Car54BC08 Champion Author British Columbia Posts:4,229 Points:1,505,365 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 10:58:07 AM Ignore Car54BC08 Report Abuse You just have to pay in order to get any results you want from a study
Bullseye520 Champion Author Louisville Posts:2,172 Points:662,415 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 10:58:05 AM Ignore Bullseye520 Report Abuse Thus the old saying "figures lie and liars figure". It's still not worth the extra cost!
zimowski Champion Author San Jose Posts:6,646 Points:1,579,490 Joined:Nov 2007	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 10:55:53 AM Ignore zimowski Report Abuse Still not interested in an EV.
blazerbob91 Champion Author Milwaukee Posts:6,122 Points:1,879,630 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 10:55:44 AM Ignore blazerbob91 Report Abuse Thats data manipulation
chyguy3 Champion Author Wyoming Posts:2,855 Points:859,540 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 10:55:33 AM Ignore chyguy3 Report Abuse Details, details, always more experts contradicting each other.
trugasCA Champion Author California Posts:3,816 Points:159,230 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 10:55:32 AM Ignore trugasCA Report Abuse "dubious assumptions"
bullseye100 Champion Author New Jersey Posts:2,409 Points:579,830 Joined:Aug 2011	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 10:54:34 AM Ignore bullseye100 Report Abuse Anyone can use data for their own agenda.
dad2two Champion Author Dallas Posts:3,525 Points:745,870 Joined:May 2010	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 10:51:58 AM Ignore dad2two Report Abuse You can always use statistics to support any point of view you wish to convey.
bbthegun Champion Author San Diego Posts:5,968 Points:1,676,665 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 10:51:53 AM Ignore bbthegun Report Abuse Whatever...still won't buy one.
vjs3 Champion Author Denver Posts:2,516 Points:644,940 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 10:51:20 AM Ignore vjs3 Report Abuse Thanks for the information.
goalie1950 Champion Author Phoenix Posts:6,385 Points:1,291,445 Joined:Oct 2009	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 10:50:45 AM Ignore goalie1950 Report Abuse Have to agree, EV cars are not the answer as viable alternative fuel vehicle. [Edited by: goalie1950 at 10/18/2012 10:50:54 AM EST]
Moppy1981 Rookie Author Milwaukee Posts:58 Points:3,275 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 10:47:28 AM Ignore Moppy1981 Report Abuse yeah
BlueVanGroup Champion Author Colorado Posts:7,184 Points:1,523,680 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 10:47:17 AM Ignore BlueVanGroup Report Abuse The religious wars continue.
Ticobird Champion Author Huntsville Posts:3,205 Points:1,111,040 Joined:Oct 2009	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 10:46:30 AM Ignore Ticobird Report Abuse It's not hard to make statistical figures tell any story you want.
VernonOR Champion Author Oregon Posts:2,890 Points:733,495 Joined:Aug 2010	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 10:45:21 AM Ignore VernonOR Report Abuse Good information.
Gastroenteritis All-Star Author Jacksonville Posts:514 Points:71,115 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 10:44:51 AM Ignore Gastroenteritis Report Abuse Noooo!!! and probably they where paid by an oil company. I knew that the article was garbage and stupid.
Bus936 Champion Author Lexington Posts:16,418 Points:3,215,030 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 10:42:49 AM Ignore Bus936 Report Abuse And now you know what opinions and studies are, as everybody has one.
q2 Champion Author Alberta Posts:2,009 Points:375,120 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 10:41:22 AM Ignore q2 Report Abuse opinions
georged12 All-Star Author Michigan Posts:830 Points:52,035 Joined:Jun 2012	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 10:41:02 AM Ignore georged12 Report Abuse OK
dopster Champion Author Toledo Posts:7,245 Points:2,287,275 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 10:40:59 AM Ignore dopster Report Abuse What's their agenda?
Bruno44 Champion Author Texas Posts:7,054 Points:1,764,195 Joined:Sep 2007	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 10:40:54 AM Ignore Bruno44 Report Abuse Agree with DblChek, "Indyracefan is right." EV's are not cost effective nor useful in most of the country at this time. Maybe with improvements and less toxic batteries they will be more viable in the future.
manbig13 Champion Author Cleveland Posts:1,431 Points:556,725 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 10:40:07 AM Ignore manbig13 Report Abuse ok
RedskinGas Champion Author Tennessee Posts:2,003 Points:1,128,010 Joined:Jun 2006	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 10:39:43 AM Ignore RedskinGas Report Abuse Still waiting on a true up side to it.
dabayer Champion Author New Hampshire Posts:2,731 Points:621,030 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 10:39:33 AM Ignore dabayer Report Abuse And who, pray tell, is this "Leo Hickman in The Guardian"???
rasprout Champion Author Tacoma Posts:3,367 Points:1,218,060 Joined:Jun 2009	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 10:39:13 AM Ignore rasprout Report Abuse This may be an exaggeration, but it does bring up some thinking points!
SUSANCK Champion Author Chicago Posts:3,622 Points:704,555 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 10:37:52 AM Ignore SUSANCK Report Abuse O well.