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One Step Closer to Game-Changing Battery

The Energy Collective -- Envia Systems’ breakthrough battery is one step closer to commercialization after a public vote of confidence last week from the CEO of General Motors (GM), Dan Akerson. The fact that Envia’s energy-dense battery could lead to an electric vehicle with a range of 200 miles per charge is not remarkable on its own. Where the Envia battery truly stands out is on the cost issue. CEO Atul Kapadia has set a conservative target of building “a 200-mile car cost[ing] no more than $25,000 and a 300-mile car cost[ing] no more than $35,000.”

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Submitted Aug 19, 2012 By: AnnElk

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1OILMAN Champion Author Alabama Posts:2,080 Points:160,730 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 1:36:18 PM Ignore 1OILMAN Report Abuse I prefer a V8
sparky808 Champion Author Honolulu Posts:3,013 Points:600,660 Joined:Sep 2011	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 1:20:56 PM Ignore sparky808 Report Abuse Thank you for posting.
crep1291 Champion Author Ottawa Posts:2,587 Points:481,455 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 10:31:49 AM Ignore crep1291 Report Abuse At 25,000$ per 10 years, that's a depreciation of 2,500$/year. Still a bit too high. I'd rather have power on the highways and have a battery a quarter that size...
ktyson13 Champion Author Maryland Posts:1,546 Points:398,600 Joined:Aug 2010	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 9:13:55 AM Ignore ktyson13 Report Abuse Show me the money!
akitaone Champion Author Tampa Posts:1,342 Points:88,995 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 2:58:26 AM Ignore akitaone Report Abuse I don't think so, show me!
GasFreeLeaf Champion Author Orange County Posts:1,250 Points:476,610 Joined:Oct 2010	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 2:38:38 AM Ignore GasFreeLeaf Report Abuse Looking 4 years into the future,really?
Jeff4U Champion Author Atlanta Posts:8,767 Points:1,854,320 Joined:Nov 2004	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 1:13:12 AM Ignore Jeff4U Report Abuse Just make a better one for my Droid, alrighty?
crreed1 Champion Author West Virginia Posts:1,995 Points:2,528,285 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 12:22:44 AM Ignore crreed1 Report Abuse need a job to buy one
Zonk Champion Author Michigan Posts:6,491 Points:2,104,715 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 12:21:39 AM Ignore Zonk Report Abuse It won't happen in the next few years.
gamalerin Champion Author Tampa Posts:4,762 Points:995,460 Joined:Jul 2010	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 12:14:32 AM Ignore gamalerin Report Abuse I don't think this is going to happen soon.
VetteFan Champion Author Indiana Posts:9,749 Points:2,030,430 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 12:14:29 AM Ignore VetteFan Report Abuse The real drawback for me is the question of whether an EV becomes disposable after 10-12 years. Exactly how much will it cost to replace the power pack? A $25,000 vehicle after 10 years is worth around $6,000 to $8,000 at most. If it costs thousands to replace the battery that price is likely cut in half. At that point won't it be essentially junk?
Focus2 Champion Author Illinois Posts:7,896 Points:1,920,395 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 12:14:26 AM Ignore Focus2 Report Abuse $25,000 is over twice the price I paid for my brick home new! Build cars that run on CNG and they can forget the electric car. They can't act ignorant about natural gas as they all have been asked to build them.
jkpsr Champion Author New Jersey Posts:4,089 Points:1,103,855 Joined:Jun 2005	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 12:12:02 AM Ignore jkpsr Report Abuse This is just one more step in a process to free us of fossil fuels.
mfeldstein Champion Author Ottawa Posts:8,181 Points:1,932,430 Joined:Feb 2007	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 12:11:10 AM Ignore mfeldstein Report Abuse Every baby step in the right direction is a very good thing.
SteelPenny Champion Author Dallas Posts:30,990 Points:2,608,690 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 12:10:23 AM Ignore SteelPenny Report Abuse Right.
lunarrv15 Champion Author Cincinnati Posts:14,882 Points:2,387,260 Joined:Dec 2005	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 12:08:20 AM Ignore lunarrv15 Report Abuse okay...interesting thanks for posting
firedudette Champion Author St. Louis Posts:11,907 Points:2,118,275 Joined:Jul 2005	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 12:08:15 AM Ignore firedudette Report Abuse ok
jetskijerry Champion Author North Carolina Posts:3,906 Points:774,220 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 12:08:06 AM Ignore jetskijerry Report Abuse good luck!
souly Champion Author Montreal Posts:1,770 Points:433,345 Joined:Jun 2010	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 12:07:38 AM Ignore souly Report Abuse thanks for the post
frostyWV Champion Author West Virginia Posts:2,339 Points:519,235 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 12:07:27 AM Ignore frostyWV Report Abuse not for me.
joel27nc Champion Author Raleigh Posts:10,547 Points:1,860,320 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 12:07:08 AM Ignore joel27nc Report Abuse Need to bring the price under $20,000 for me to even think about getting one.
cheapertvs Champion Author Richmond Posts:10,295 Points:2,743,670 Joined:Jan 2004	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 12:05:14 AM Ignore cheapertvs Report Abuse It does not matter: electric cars would still be too expensive for me.
METEOR49 Champion Author Ontario Posts:2,182 Points:457,175 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 12:05:11 AM Ignore METEOR49 Report Abuse there is no need for the price tag to be so high.
jem069 Champion Author Detroit Posts:2,548 Points:689,030 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 12:04:09 AM Ignore jem069 Report Abuse Ok
Vitobug Champion Author El Paso Posts:1,955 Points:642,185 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 12:04:02 AM Ignore Vitobug Report Abuse ok
pastorpaulcg Champion Author Virginia Posts:3,615 Points:775,785 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 12:03:27 AM Ignore pastorpaulcg Report Abuse Cool
regout Champion Author Quebec Posts:2,965 Points:834,655 Joined:May 2010	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 12:03:16 AM Ignore regout Report Abuse One of these days...
ManOfLeisureII Champion Author Philadelphia Posts:1,884 Points:456,100 Joined:Jan 2012	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 12:01:49 AM Ignore ManOfLeisureII Report Abuse No way this car lasts 15 years.
rahcat Champion Author Grand Rapids Posts:2,478 Points:664,900 Joined:Jan 2010	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 12:01:36 AM Ignore rahcat Report Abuse No EV for me.
defiancegasman Champion Author Ohio Posts:7,080 Points:1,323,260 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 12:01:08 AM Ignore defiancegasman Report Abuse Still want either a VERY QUICK CHARGE or gas backup engine for on the road! The VOLT idea is still the best!
GRUMPY55 Champion Author California Posts:1,629 Points:424,250 Joined:Oct 2011	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 12:00:20 AM Ignore GRUMPY55 Report Abuse ok
jrsva Champion Author Virginia Posts:9,863 Points:1,614,950 Joined:Jan 2006	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 11:58:07 PM Ignore jrsva Report Abuse Battery technology is continually evolving; this is one step in that process. EVs are not yet ready for prime time but we are getting closer.
toytech3 All-Star Author Chicago Posts:917 Points:610,820 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 11:57:59 PM Ignore toytech3 Report Abuse Sounds good
Vitobug Champion Author El Paso Posts:1,955 Points:642,185 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 11:57:56 PM Ignore Vitobug Report Abuse ok
mgune9 All-Star Author Dallas Posts:914 Points:200,395 Joined:Feb 2012	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 11:57:35 PM Ignore mgune9 Report Abuse that's good --- we'll see
jackster111 Champion Author North Carolina Posts:3,335 Points:427,285 Joined:Feb 2012	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 11:54:43 PM Ignore jackster111 Report Abuse cool
Beaveronparade Champion Author Hartford Posts:2,108 Points:636,785 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 11:50:27 PM Ignore Beaveronparade Report Abuse Interesting. Sounds like a good thing.
beachmanglen All-Star Author Tampa Posts:679 Points:497,850 Joined:Aug 2011	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 11:49:32 PM Ignore beachmanglen Report Abuse Compressed natural gas is the answer to power. We're too far away in developing reliable battery technology.
pgerassi Champion Author Milwaukee Posts:10,906 Points:2,133,555 Joined:Apr 2007	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 11:49:05 PM Ignore pgerassi Report Abuse Lithium Sulfur batteries have such a density, but they can only be charged about 50-100 times before they lose about 20% of their capacity. The most telling graph is one of capacity at 80% DOD which is typical of today's EVs. It shows a 33% loss of capacity in just 150 cycles whereas LiFePO4 usually gets about 3,000 cycles. Li-S has a capacity of 100-120AH compared to a LiFePO4 battery of just 20AH, however Li-S has a average voltage of 2.5V compared to 3.2V for LiFePO4, so the capacity for 0.5kg cell is 275WH for Li-S and 64WH for LiFePO4. Envia's is 45AH at 4.2V for 189WH. Double those for /kg levels or 550WH/kg for Li-S, 128WH/kg for LiFePO4 and 378WH/kg for Envia. So the total capacity before 80% level is reached is 29.7KWH/kg, 276KWH/kg and 2.72KWH/kg respectively for Li-S, LiFePO4 and Envia. The quick loss of 20% at just 10 cycles is the reason for the low lifetime showing. If you use 66% as the lifetime the values are 53.5KWH/kg, 497KWH/kg, and 39.8KWH/kg. Li-S has better range and costs less than Envia's solution. The current LiFePO4 20AH foil pack has over 100 times the lifetime storage under the current standard rating system and 12.5 times using Envia's rating system. See here for the graphs: http://www.hybridcars.com/news/envia-li-ion-battery-yields-world-record-energy-density-41768.html
MotoDad Champion Author Phoenix Posts:1,106 Points:812,765 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 11:47:21 PM Ignore MotoDad Report Abuse Want it
bonzoonfmb Champion Author Florida Posts:1,792 Points:646,535 Joined:Feb 2010	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 11:47:18 PM Ignore bonzoonfmb Report Abuse We'll see. Just because GM and ARPA (two government entities) support the technology and the company doesn't mean that it is viable, cost-effective or the panacea for affordable energy storage.
joeschmo12 Champion Author New York Posts:1,027 Points:308,165 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 11:43:18 PM Ignore joeschmo12 Report Abuse finally... although we're decades behind...
oldiesman Champion Author New York Posts:6,440 Points:2,196,695 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 11:41:27 PM Ignore oldiesman Report Abuse GM=Government Motors= Obama = Government Interference.
FuelOilOH Champion Author Cleveland Posts:2,837 Points:1,180,220 Joined:Oct 2007	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 11:40:54 PM Ignore FuelOilOH Report Abuse There's a way to do everything you just have to find it.
Night Owl Champion Author Toronto Posts:7,560 Points:1,788,550 Joined:Jul 2004	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 11:40:40 PM Ignore Night Owl Report Abuse Let's see it on the road. This technology is desperately needed.
Chris46 Champion Author Dayton Posts:23,705 Points:2,083,515 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 11:38:42 PM Ignore Chris46 Report Abuse Get the price down to 22K
ot4kidz Champion Author Cleveland Posts:1,565 Points:783,780 Joined:Jan 2010	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 11:38:32 PM Ignore ot4kidz Report Abuse Won't believe it until it is actually in production.
LCSTEELERBOB Champion Author Gary Posts:2,961 Points:720,130 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 11:36:58 PM Ignore LCSTEELERBOB Report Abuse to make these cars work it will take a game closer
tidalwave3 Champion Author Tallahassee Posts:1,308 Points:1,465,580 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 11:35:29 PM Ignore tidalwave3 Report Abuse Interesting and we will see :)
nru Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:1,757 Points:984,885 Joined:Feb 2006	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 11:34:27 PM Ignore nru Report Abuse another step