drpepperTX
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Texas
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Message Posted: Aug 13, 2012 8:23:11 AM
Full industry disclosure at Fracfocus.org
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honda0105
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Tallahassee
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Message Posted: Aug 13, 2012 5:47:56 AM
as long as the industry refuses to disclose at least some of the chemicals (aside of the very easy to detect stuff), there is a shadow of doubt on the industry's behavior. Disclose and much of the controversy would be going away.
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honda0105
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Tallahassee
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Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 12:07:51 AM
Thanks for posting T42.
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LetemEatCake
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Oklahoma City
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 10:33:46 PM
Good article Teafortwo....Thanks for posting!
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dollarwatcher
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Wisconsin
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 9:25:19 PM
If you look hard enough you can find something wrong with everything.
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kishoreCA
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Ventura
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 9:23:29 PM
Does it require a research to understand this? Is it not common sense?
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gasmack
Champion Author
Ventura
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 9:17:28 PM
Fracking should be done very carefully and follow the most rigorous standards necessary to prevent pollution and contamination.
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Darwin00
All-Star Author
Mississippi
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 9:14:01 PM
I figured this would come up sooner or later.
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ican2step
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Pittsburgh
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 9:13:58 PM
the next study will be different
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bradley1969
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Wisconsin
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 9:13:31 PM
I don't beleive them...
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dave1745
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Gary
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 9:11:56 PM
hmm
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WIWalt
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Wisconsin
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 9:02:15 PM
No surprise
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IUVidiot
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Indiana
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 8:54:26 PM
ok
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TDIdave
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California
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 8:52:32 PM
No surprise. And pollution in multiple ways too.
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DeeLA
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Los Angeles
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 8:51:27 PM
A view from only one source.
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dinomen
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Arkansas
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 8:51:12 PM
Ok.
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abacus44
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Toms River
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 8:46:41 PM
And this source is unbiased?
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bearzz
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California
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 7:31:05 PM
This is just one article and I am not familiar with the source. On any given subject, you will find pros and cons. I do not believe in global warming; look at the controversy on that subject. The facts do not bear it out. But there are "experts" that say it exists and those who say no no no. Same thing here . . .
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unicornIL
Veteran Author
Chicago
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 7:08:57 PM
look at the real facts and data
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STLcardsfan
Champion Author
St. Louis
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 7:02:54 PM
Its good,it's bad, Its good,it's bad,Its good,it's bad,Its good,it's bad,Its good,it's bad,Its good,it's bad,Its good,it's bad,Its good,it's bad,Its good,it's bad,Its good,it's bad,Its good,it's bad,Its good,it's bad,
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preacherjohn
Champion Author
Modesto
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 7:02:01 PM
glad we don't have any of that out here.
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jesilvas
Rookie Author
Texas
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 6:56:21 PM
And then tomorrow, the news will read there is no risk at all.
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Settjec
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Little Rock
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 5:04:21 PM
We shall know the truth after .................. we die
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drpepperTX
Champion Author
Texas
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 4:59:17 PM
"You can literally put facts in front of people, and they will just ignore them," said Mark Lubell, the director of the Center for Environmental Policy and Behavior at the University of California, Davis.
Very true words.
Plebe201 hits the nail on the head "In other words they are making estimates based on there position and not on actual facts. And the results can be very different based on how and what estimates are used."
Correct, but we must remember, just as Mark Lubell said the facts will be ignored, like with the OP.
[Edited by: drpepperTX at 8/10/2012 4:59:51 PM EST]
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bigdipperMS
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Mississippi
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 4:58:15 PM
Lots of ifs ands and buts in this report. The suggestion that an alternative fracturing method should be required by regulatory officials is really from left field. I am sure the industry would be open to this and maybe these brilliant scientists from Stony Brook University could develop a procedure fairly easy.
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Hugo40
Champion Author
Kentucky
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 4:55:55 PM
Always a study out there.
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eddyp94
Champion Author
Ontario
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 4:55:35 PM
Anything to make money anymore...
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Voltus
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Miami
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 4:55:28 PM
reason should win (but sometimes money have more punch than reason and science)... big oil in bed with politicians...
Congress should pass a law: "Put America First Act" - all oil extracted and/or refined here must serve America's needs first, then the oil companies can sell the rest to whomever they please...
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Ayeghoti
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Michigan
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 4:54:40 PM
duh!
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12mpgnavigator
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Seattle
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 4:50:15 PM
ok
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TelsaOR
Champion Author
Oregon
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 4:45:58 PM
What, only risks?
They've already polluted acquifers, in the name of the mighty $.
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no_monkey2002
Champion Author
Tallahassee
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 4:45:55 PM
who is paying this researchers
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bigrigAZ
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Phoenix
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 4:44:24 PM
Sounds like the EPA talking.
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PDQBlues
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San Diego
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 4:43:47 PM
And of course the usual fracking shillers shrill out their denials, claiming crap like "arsenic is natural." Yes, some of these toxins are "natural" but they will still kill you. And many of the other "unnatural" toxins will kill you, too.
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TheSnowstorm
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Montreal
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 4:42:22 PM
This has got to be the hottest topic since ethanol...
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balljars
Champion Author
Michigan
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 4:42:16 PM
Questionable.
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Harry813
Champion Author
Iowa
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 4:42:05 PM
It's like a ping pong match?
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Plebe2001
Champion Author
Philadelphia
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 4:41:56 PM
If you read the whole article they say that "Rozell and Reaven use an analytical approach called “probability bounds analysis” that is suitable “when data are sparse and parameters highly uncertain." In other words they are making estimates based on there position and not on actual facts. And the results can be very different based on how and what estimates are used.
We will need better information based on actual facts and information from actual testing. PA passed a law that not only requires protections and testing but gives the local governments tax revenues from the fracking to pay for testing and research. Hopefully these will be implemented and checking will be performed so we know what is happening. If there is pollution then they will need to clean it up and prevent future pollution.
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teafortwo
Champion Author
Washington
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 4:37:24 PM
doviwi from Wisconsin says:
"Only the Oil Industry can pump chemicals into the earth and have the right not to disclose which chemicals they are using. Oil Industry thinks that they are over-regulated."
The BIG GREED industries of COAL, OIL & GAS have long insisted that they are the best ones to regulate themselves :0|
Their reasons are that they know best about the technology and methods.
They also say since problems and spills are "impossible" because they are such "experts" ......
As you see from many of the shill, troll and industry "expert" comments here on GB;
they always hope we believe everything they say, without question and without common sense.
Dream on BIG GREED.
Maybe you should take some of the money you spend on phoney reports, lobbyists, shills and trolls;
and use that money to clean up some of the environmental messes you have created.
Don't tell US how careful you are about the environment.
Show US.
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honkerman
Champion Author
San Jose
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 4:37:23 PM
Absolutely amazing how they find that when the fracking takes place a mile or two deeper than the water table supply.
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blitzntj
Champion Author
Jacksonville
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 4:32:50 PM
Another study
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Buddy2264
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Tampa
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 4:32:30 PM
This is not a surprise. And what do when do when we have no good water to drink and use. What will that cost be VS oil?
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driveonby1
Champion Author
Toledo
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 4:32:16 PM
I don't believe it. Were there baseline studies in the area?
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ChuckGVT
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Vermont
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 4:32:13 PM
What will the greenies try next to shut down the country?
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satrn38mpg
Champion Author
Raleigh
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 4:31:55 PM
same old story
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LocalSpyGuy
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Tampa
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 4:31:34 PM
I guess it depends on which day it is and whose article you are reading.
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stonecold5005
All-Star Author
Waco
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 4:26:40 PM
wow
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roundtrip100
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Fort Wayne
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 4:26:31 PM
ok
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drpepperTX
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Texas
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 4:06:22 PM
As more and more SCIENTIFIC studies are added to a growing list of studies showing the safety of hydraulic fracturing, the science denial crowd will overlook the science and continue to promote fear. Yelling "the water's on fire etc.".
They'll continue to chant the thoroughly debunked claims of Josh Fox "Gasland" propaganda.
So now it's water use eh? As each aspect of the witch hunt against oil and gas production is knocked down by science these yahoos will come up with something else out of the blue. Show me one state where oil and gas comapanies use more than a tiny fraction (far less than 1%) of the total water usage. While your at it show me a state that doesn't allow golf courses to use hundreds of times more water than drilling. You cannot, case closed.
You see, there is a huge amount of deceiving information spouted out to the public about hydraulic fracturing, a decades-old technology. Those who spread this misinformation are mostly preying on the public's fears, with an ultimate goal of forcing state governments to succumb to that fear and prevent or even ban hydraulic fracturing. We need to make sure that the discussion is productive, and that any rules are legitimately conceived. Fact must be sEPArated from fiction.
The most common claim talking point is that hydraulic fracturing contaminates ground water. This is baseless. Have you ever noticed that the critics who make that claim never provide concrete evidence? The reason for their omission? It is obvious why. After being used more than 1.2 million times there have been no confirmed cases of hydraulic fracturing contaminating water. None. Never. Ever.
As EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson said in April of 2012, "In no case have we made a definitive determination that the fracking process has caused chemicals to enter groundwater."
The three "smoking gun" cases that the anti-shale zealots were sinking their teeth into have proven false or based on very poor science. See Pavillion WY, Dimoch, PA, and Parker County, TX.
The latest fear mongering is "climate change" thru methane emission from hydraulic fracturing. Once again SCIENTIFIC investigation has shown the EPA using numbers that are overblown by 50%.
Oh and the "evil Halliburton Loophole" talking point! LOL, what a joke. This is the errant claim born out of the yellow journalism of "gasland", a proven fraudulent film by Josh Fox, that hydraulic fracturing is "exempt" from the Safe Drinking Water Act, thanks to an energy bill passed by Congress in 2005. The truth??? SDWA has been the law of the land for nearly 40 years, and at no point has it ever covered hydraulic fracturing. Why??? States already tightly and effectively regulate the process.
How can an industry be exempt from something that never covered you in the first place? But you hear this falsehood talking point most every time the subject comes up.
It is important to rely on facts and the science, not fear-mongering talking points.
Here?s a list of studies already undertaken on hydraulic fracturing:
U.S. University Studies & Reports
An Analysis of the Economic Potential for Shale Formations in Ohio, prepared by faculty and staff from Cleveland State University, Ohio State University, and Marietta College, and sponsored by the Ohio Shale Coalition, April 2012
Carnegie-Mellon Marcellus Greenhouse Gas Study: Life cycle greenhouse gas emissions of Marcellus shale gas, by Jiang et al., Environ. Res. Lett. 6 (July-September 2011)
The Cornell University Study: Methane and the greenhouse-gas footprint of natural gas from shale formations, Howarth et al., Climatic Change, March 13, 2011
? Rebuttal: A commentary on ?The greenhouse-gas footprint of natural gas in shale formations,? June 20, 2011
? Rebuttal: Assessing the greenhouse impact of natural gas, Jan. 7, 2012
The Duke University Study: Methane contamination of drinking water accompanying gas-well drilling and hydraulic fracturing, Osborn et al., PNAS Early Edition, May 2011, www.pnas.org/cgi/doi/10.1073/pnas.1100682108
Duke University Study: Geochemical evidence for possible natural migration of Marcellus Formation brine to shallow aquifers in Pennsylvania. Nathanial R. Warner, Robert B. Jackson, Thomas H. Darrah, Stephen G. Osborn, Adrian Down, Kaiguang Zhao, Alissa White, and Avner Vengosh, May 2012
Economic Impact of the Eagle Ford Shale, prepared by The University of Texas at San Antonio Institute for Economic Development?s Center for Community and Business Research, May 2012
Environmental Impacts During Marcellus Shale Gas Drilling: Causes, Impacts, and Remedies, conducted by researchers at the University of Wyoming, Pennsylvania State University, and the State University of New York at Buffalo, May 15, 2012
Hydraulic Fracturing and Water Resources: Separating the Frack from the Fiction, prepared by the Pacific Institute, June 2012
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drpepperTX
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Texas
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 3:59:43 PM
Oh dear, more fear and paranoia in the face of dozens of studies showing the safety of hydraulic fracturing.
Marcellus Brine Migration Likely Natural, Not Man-Made
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